1921/2021 Forum Watchfest

[Kitty]

I started Conquering Power, but it will be a little while before I'm able to finish.

[donnie]

I started Conquering Power, but it will be a little while before I'm able to finish.

Good! This one does have some good logical stopping places for watching it in parts.

[Kitty]

Finally finished The Conquering Power. With a name like that, it didn't catch my eye; it sort of sounds like a stuffy one just by the title, but that only goes to prove that you can't judge a book by its cover. I really enjoyed this film.

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Alice Terry was extremely good in this, as well. Some of today’s viewers might find her a shade too melodramatic at times—but I thought she brought real intensity and appeal to the role. And such a radiantly beautiful and expressive face.... She also had good chemistry with Valentino. All of the characters were good, including the not-very-likable ones. In The Sheik, I did not particularly care about the characters; I cared deeply about them here.

I totally agree. Even the father is good, though I hated him so much.

.....And the powerful and very well-done scene of Pere Grandet’s final descent into madness and death. That gold creature…!

That was such a beautiful scene, and so menacing. It made the whole film for me. That scene was particularly frightening, and it came out of nowhere, at least to me. The gold hands remind me of the film Greed; they repeatedly show scenes of hands like these to depict the concept of greed. The gold creature was so cool to see, too!!!

I loved the ending, also (and the score, by the way, which was excellent throughout, was particularly good there). It was very touching that she would go back to the special bench after the engagement arrangement—and then look who had the same idea…. One little quibble: I didn't like the idea that years went by before they "found" each other—so much time happiness and time together lost....

I agree. Though they're going to have forever together, it always gives me sad pangs of regret for time lost when things like this happen. Such a waste of years and time apart.

1. Now, this love affair between first cousins. Hmm. Did that bother you? I thought it a little odd, although I understand that was common in Europe. It didn’t seem to bother Charles or Eugenie at all. Just the same, it was a good to find Eugenie wasn’t a biological daughter (though I think the reason for introducing that fact probably had more to do with establishing that her step-father had cheated her out of her inheritance). Question: Plot wise, did Eugenie—and Charles—ever learn that they were not, in fact, cousins?

It doesn't bother me at all, as this used to be a normal thing, even first cousins. Think about it: in most of history, people had to marry people who were in close proximity, and if it is a smaller town, well, you don't have a lot of choice. Especially if family has money, you'd want to add to that wealth by a union like that. Today, marrying your cousin is not at all necessary, since I can fly to any country I want, live there for a while, and find a husband there! Also, if you remember, this story is based on the Balzac novel Eugénie Grandet, which was written in 1833. Furthermore, 1920s audiences must not have thought it was very strange, because I think if it was considered immoral at that point, they'd have changed the story to reflect the norms of the time.

2. One title near the beginning struck me, the one about how audiences did not like “costume plays,” but preferred stories with a contemporary setting. I thought that was very interesting, and a little surprising. And one reason I thought it interesting is that that’s how I feel.

It's shocking how much audiences really have not changed in all of moviedom. It's fascinating to read the magazines and letters that people wrote in, over 100 years ago, and they echo the same complaints about films that people have now. Stuffy costume plays are hard to relate to, and I think that's why the majority of people prefer modern settings.

For some reason, I’ve always preferred silent films set in the era in which they were filmed (generally, at least) rather than back in a historical period. I’m not sure why that is—or why that in itself should make a difference—but apparently I had some company in that! Of course, a historical setting doesn’t keep me from enjoying a film (see Orphans of the Storm), but if given a choice, I’m always more interested in a contemporary setting.

I personally think it's the all-outness that they deployed in every silent film. Every time there's a historical or costume film in the silent era, it was a huge production that can be hard to take in all at once.

And now some of my thoughts:

At the party in the beginning with the pond and little boats --- is that something that people did back then, or was this supposed to be an illustration of their idle rich ways?

When Rudy asks if the father's trip was successful, the father lies, saying yes, and we can read his lips when he says 'oui', which is, as most of us know, yes in french. It is a French setting, after all!

The father says he's growing old, and the son is just turning 26. He is probably only in his 60s unless he was way older than the wife was when she had his son. It's not like he's 80.

I wonder if reading the book would make it more satisfying watching the film, as they call out a lot of names of characters, assuming that the viewer has read the book already.

I understand that they were trying to illustrate a point that Eugenie is rich in gold, but do you think she would react like that when she received the gold, knowing that it was coming to her every year? She acted like he gave her something new that looked different and somehow more beautiful than what he gave her last year.

The letter to Annette saying he would never meet her again, why would he tell her about how pretty his cousin was? Doesn't he realize this could upset her?

Why do the 'bad guys' in silent film always move stiffly and overact?

Wow!!! Rudy looks amazing in the West Indies without being made up as a dandy and with normal clothes on! And his sad acting is so good at the end of this scene.

I don't know if it's because this is how she's described in the story, but I hate that Eugenie's mother is caked with makeup, way too powdered, and her hair is terrible as if a woman must always get to a certain point in age and let her appearance go. Her daughter is, what? 20? And she is made up to be 75. ---- As an afterthought, I think she was the only one who had a 'costume' in the whole film. She looked like a real old-timey french woman.

Wow! That was an insinuating line -- "What else did he steal from you besides the gold?"

Oh, that is so sad, the death of the mother. She never even got to see her baby happy again.

Why didn't Eugenie slip out the window if she knew her father killed her mother and that he was abusing her? Perhaps the hope that Rudy would be back?

Glad I finally finished the film. This was SO good. I'd recommend it even just for the scene with

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the gold monster.

[donnie]

I’m glad you liked this one! I thought you would.

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It doesn't bother me at all, as this used to be a normal thing, even first cousins. Think about it: in most of history, people had to marry people who were in close proximity, and if it is a smaller town, well, you don't have a lot of choice.

Well—but wouldn’t there be a danger there in terms of genetics? That’s what makes me question it. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have a problem with it.

I personally think it's the all-outness that they deployed in every silent film. Every time there's a historical or costume film in the silent era, it was a huge production that can be hard to take in all at once.

Yes, now you mention it, I think that does have a lot to do with it! You kind of feel like you have to roll up your sleeves or something.

At the party in the beginning with the pond and little boats --- is that something that people did back then, or was this supposed to be an illustration of their idle rich ways?

I’d say the latter, but that’s just a guess.

I understand that they were trying to illustrate a point that Eugenie is rich in gold, but do you think she would react like that when she received the gold, knowing that it was coming to her every year? She acted like he gave her something new that looked different and somehow more beautiful than what he gave her last year.

Yes, that almost little-girl giddiness seem to be a little of a strange overreaction, under the circumstances.

Why do the 'bad guys' in silent film always move stiffly and overact?

I’d say a holdover from the old stage melodramas. But again, that’s just a guess.

Wow!!! Rudy looks amazing in the West Indies without being made up as a dandy and with normal clothes on!

Yes, he looks so modern, doesn’t he?

I don't know if it's because this is how she's described in the story, but I hate that Eugenie's mother is caked with makeup, way too powdered, and her hair is terrible as if a woman must always get to a certain point in age and let her appearance go. Her daughter is, what? 20? And she is made up to be 75. ---- As an afterthought, I think she was the only one who had a 'costume' in the whole film. She looked like a real old-timey french woman.

I can’t remember too much about her exact appearance, but I do remember noticing that some of the clothing seemed older than the story, so that the exact time of the setting (in the village part) seemed kind of blurred.

And that reminds me (don’t think I mentioned this earlier), the scenes toward the end of the villagers doing laundry, horsing around near the water, etc., seemed extraneous and mostly unrelated to the plot. I couldn’t figure out the purpose, unless it was just to put some local color in

Wow! That was an insinuating line -- "What else did he steal from you besides the gold?"

Don’t remember that line. Who said this to whom?

[Kitty]

Responses to Conquering Power:

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It doesn't bother me at all, as this used to be a normal thing, even first cousins. Think about it: in most of history, people had to marry people who were in close proximity, and if it is a smaller town, well, you don't have a lot of choice.

Well—but wouldn’t there be a danger there in terms of genetics? That’s what makes me question it. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have a problem with it.

I don't think this is the big genetic issue that people make it out to be, with cousins. Now, if every single generation married so close into the family, I think a problem might rear itself. This is just based on a few things I've read, I'm no scholar on the subject.

Wow! That was an insinuating line -- "What else did he steal from you besides the gold?"

Don’t remember that line. Who said this to whom?

When Eugenie's father found out she'd given away all her gold, her father says this. This is right as he's freaking out and accidentally kills her mother.

[Kitty]

I watched Seven Years Bad Luck.

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It seemed like 10 shorts in one! I didn't find it funny, either, but that could just mean I don't 'get' this kind of madcap hilarity. Comments:

I can't believe he allowed a fly to crawl on this face like that and also to let the cat lick his face. Very disgusting.

Bizarre way to depict daydreaming - they imposed the image in his hair!

My favorite part was the lion part. What a nice cat that was that he was with!

[donnie]

Response on Luck:

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I watched Seven Years Bad Luck. It seemed like 10 shorts in one! I didn't find it funny, either, but that could just mean I don't 'get' this kind of madcap hilarity.

For some reason, I just noticed your post on this. Yeah, it wasn't something I would want to watch again, though I thought it had its moments. And I do like Linder, in general. But it was certainly just a string of gags and did not have the plot structure or character development of, say, the Harold Lloyd or Buster Keaton films. I think Linder may have been at his best in shorts that are based in one particular situation.

[Kitty]

Response on Luck:

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I watched Seven Years Bad Luck. It seemed like 10 shorts in one! I didn't find it funny, either, but that could just mean I don't 'get' this kind of madcap hilarity.

For some reason, I just noticed your post on this. Yeah, it wasn't something I would want to watch again, though I thought it had its moments. And I do like Linder, in general. But it was certainly just a string of gags and did not have the plot structure or character development of, say, the Harold Lloyd or Buster Keaton films. I think Linder may have been at his best in shorts that are based in one particular situation.

I read your post on it after I posted mine, and I definitely agree that you can see bits of Keaton and Chaplin in there. It's just that the thoughtful execution isn't there.

[BettyLouSpence]

Comments on The Affairs of Anatol below:

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Overall, I think this was a nice marital drama from deMille, though if I were Vivian, I wouldn't have taken Anatol back in the end. Seeing him kiss the pastor's kleptomaniac wife would've been the last straw for me; I think Viv's a little too loyal for her own good.

Those color intertitles Easily the most gorgeous ones I've seen and a lovely choice to punctuate the film. Cinematography-wise, there were some scenes with nice back-lighting I couldn't help but take note of. The one when Anatol returns from trashing Emilie's apartment comes to mind, and is especially beautiful with that amber stock.

Speaking of Emilie's apartment... man, Anatol sure flew into a rage there, didn't he? Sheesh, half the time I was telling him to just take a breather and count to ten I agree it'd have been a waste to toss the jewels into the river... would make more sense to sell them and give the money to charity. As an aside, were 1920s women typically that obsessed with jewelry??? Yes I know it's a stereotype, but I feel like I've so often seen in a silent a female character (and not always a gold digger) gleefully collecting jewels from suitors, or delightfully caressing a new diamond bracelet or pearl necklace or jewel encrusted brooch like Emilie does in this film.

Satan Synne... oh, man That has to be one of the best character names I've ever seen in a silent film. Her costumes, her apartment, her servant dressed in ancient Egypt-inspired garb, her pet leopard, that perfume bottle... so over the top and wonderful. That she was doing all this for her injured veteran husband came out of left field for me. I wonder what the bank employee thought, seeing a check addressed to a "Satan Synne"

Random stuff:

With the last name Singh, I'd have expected Nazzer to be Sikh, not Hindu (okay, granted, in 1921 they were likely just saying Hindu as a catch-all for anyone from India).

I was actually kinda surprised to see that Agnes Ayres' hair was that long. Not that I was expecting it to be bobbed, but I thought it would be much easier to manage and pin up into a faux-bob if it was shorter... well, that's my inexperience with vintage hair-styling speaking, I guess I can recognize the styles and silhouettes, but couldn't for the life of me tell you how to actually do them

[donnie]

Re Anatol:
Glad you watched this one!

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Seeing him kiss the pastor's kleptomaniac wife would've been the last straw for me;

Well, but I thought she kissed him. Do I misremember that? Or maybe interpreted it wrong. I'll have to go back and look. Not that I'm making excuses for Anatol.

Those color intertitles Easily the most gorgeous ones I've seen and a lovely choice to punctuate the film. Cinematography-wise, there were some scenes with nice back-lighting I couldn't help but take note of. The one when Anatol returns from trashing Emilie's apartment comes to mind, and is especially beautiful with that amber stock.

Yes, aren't those colors great? And the backlighting. Those are the images that come to my mind when I think of this film. I always see vibrant green and red, for some reason.

As an aside, were 1920s women typically that obsessed with jewelry??? Yes I know it's a stereotype, but I feel like I've so often seen in a silent a female character (and not always a gold digger) gleefully collecting jewels from suitors, or delightfully caressing a new diamond bracelet or pearl necklace or jewel encrusted brooch like Emilie does in this film.

Yes! Now that you mention it. They often not only like jewelry, but seem to live for it. I wonder, too, if that was just a plot device, or if it reflected reality. Maybe it was similar to the earlier obsession (it seems) with flowers.

I wonder what the bank employee thought, seeing a check addressed to a "Satan Synne"

"Pay to the Order of Satan Synne...." Yep, that would raise an eyebrow. Or two.